Thursday, August 11, 2011

Public Flogging

There has been some discussion on the County Farm post about flogging in lieu of incarceration.  I was going to just post a comment in response, but it has been so long since I’ve made a post, I decided to go ahead and write one now.

Richie and Mike are in agreement that blood has to be drawn if a flogging is to be an option available to prisoners.  But Mike believes that permanent scarring is unacceptable.  I don’t see how you can get blood without at least the risk of scarring.  But I don’t like the thought of blood being part of this for a couple of reasons:  1) It is barbaric. This isn’t the Middle Ages.  We shouldn’t be looking for bloodsport (unless it’s cagefighting).  2) The danger to the person’s health.  Even with medical technologies, there is the chance of infection, and barring that the trauma itself from loss of blood could kill someone (we simply don’t want that or the whole exercise becomes pointless).  3) If we want the public to accept this as an alternative to costly confinement, we need to meet them halfway with regard to sensibilities.  Watching a man take pain is one thing, but watching blood splatter as the skin of his back repeatedly broken is something few would want to see.

The drawing of blood would turn people away from it--not the felons, mind you, but the public.  I think a part of this idea needs to be the public administration of the punishment:  Seize the men up in the town square and flog them so any citizen can watch—and see how a tough-guy thug takes the unforgiving lash on his bare back.

This is why I recommend that we go with the prison strap for the public administration of punishment.  There would be no blood and the beating would be something the criminal would never forget.  I have taken a dozen—a mere dozen—laid on hard with a prison strap and I can tell you that that will focus your mind—not just with pain, but with fear.  It definitely takes balls to step up for that a second time.

Additionally, there needs to be a severity difference for misdemeanors and felonies.  For misdemeanors, some standard number of lashes per offense category--let's say 50 for a class A, and 12 for a Class C. 

For felons, it would be 50 lashes for each year he would have to serve behind bars if there were no parole.  We could max it out at 100 per session, so that felons would find their backs exposed several times, to get it through their heads that those kinds of crimes are not acceptable.

Of course, there will always be crimes for which people need to be locked away.  Violent offenders need to be taken off the street for public safety.  But if flogging is good enough to prevent incarceration, it could be an administrative punishment for offenses to the rules of incarceration.

Even Time magazine has broached this subject recently (in June 2011), pointing out the cost savings to society of this alternative—and traditional—form of punishment.  The bottom line is:  If we re-introduce this traditional punishment, both as an alternative to incarceration, as well as a way of inducing compliance in those that we must lock up, society would be better served.  We would have the knowledge that we are saving tons of money on a corrupt prison-industrial complex, while at the same time returning people to productive lives without long stints of confinement which hinder employment prospects and actually create a cycle of crime.


  1. You seem intent on having any kind of whipping being witnessed by the public. Why? Prisoners in the confines of any institution should be punished within those confines, not in public.
    If you really want to deter a thug, then why not sell tickets to prisoners scheduled to die in the gas chamber or lethal injection? Which is more barbaric?

    As far as drawing blood goes, it's punishment. I highly doubt that a naval flogging was just a bruising of the back, and there are things that can be done to protect areas, like the kidneys. Infection? Not if the wounds are treated properly.

    I chatted once (like I mentioned a while ago) with a guy who experienced some very severe whippings at the hands of an Aussie dude. He never experienced any kind of infection. Yah, I'm not lumping everyone into that category.

    The point is, one does not have to destroy a dudes back when blood is drawn. The guy with the whip in his hand MUST be experienced, you don't want some freakin' sadist doing the whipping, and he can use the whip to provoke something along the lines of a blood blister just beneath the skin. I know it's possible, I've had it done to me.

    One other thing, it's been proven that crime does pay.

    Gotta run...

  2. Richie, like I pointed out in the article, flogging for those that are locked up would be out of public site--there's not reason to have regular administrative punishments announced in advance.

    But those that choose flogging instead of incarceration should be shown as an example. That's part of the idea of punishment anyway: to deter others from committing crimes by watching what happens when you get caught.

    I've had the blood blisters just beneath the skin that you describe (they are most enjoyable--and last for days, so you can remember the good time you had over the weekend when you lean back in your chair at work, but I digress).

    I personally don't like the site of blood, so that might be why I don't want it to be part of it. But I also think that most people don't want to see that either. I think we would get support for floggings as alternatives to jail if the floggings themselves were available for the public to watch. If people could watch a guy break down into screaming from the lash but then walk away without becoming a costly burden to society, people will come to view it as an acceptable practice once again.

    As I had mentioned before in an earlier post, the Sheriff's office that conducts the flogging could even have a time set aside each week to carry out the floggings and sell tickets to the public to raise money to support incarcerating those those who need to be locked up.

    Wouldn't you just love to spend the day watching young men strip off their shirts, the sweat of fear glistening on their chests and backs. One by one they nervously step up and and then...THWACK. That first gasp of realization: This is gonna hurt! What a great weekend that would be!

  3. Buddy - Yah, okay, I confess, I didn't read your comment well. Sometimes I get focused on one particular set of words and that's it.

    Still, and not to prolong this, if there was a public whipping, do you really think that the criminal or however you want to address him, would really learn anything from the type of whipping that you've shown in your vid's?

    If the whip isn't laid on with force, then the redness would disappear in a few hours. If the whip -is- laid on the way it's suppose to, then drawing blood (not to the point where it gushes) will and should be drawn.

    The public, whomever they are, is probably well aware of what a whip can do to the skin, and those that decided to attend would most likely (as crude as it sounds) welcome it. Just like those attending a boxing match or even a freakin' hockey game. A lot of them get excited when that first little trickle of blood appears.
    It's our violent society.

    What is more interesting, is the fear of this (and I'm going to misspell this) of Shareiah law. Several state Legislatures have put forth legislation to ban it. Yah, I'm not quite sure what it all involves, but it sounds like chopping off someones hand for stealing, that type of stuff.

    One last thing, if this idea ever came to fruition (and that would be cool) then the instrument used on these dudes would have to be a whip, no prison strap. If they're going to learn a lesson, make it hurt, and hurt good.

  4. La flagelación en la cárceles para individuos que y están encarcelados, por supuesto que debe ser en privado.
    Ahora si lo que queremos es "prevenir" y "desalentar" futuras acciones criminales por parte de jóvenes vándalos, lo mejor sin dudas, es la flagelación pública. Desde luego que nadie pide un sangriento Circo Romano. Solo que el reo condenado a la cantidad de azotes que sea debe recibirlos en público.
    Que el que utiliza el látigo debe ser alguien entrenado. Desde luego. Si luego de las pestañas produce sangre, bueno debe ser, tal vez, a la piel "sensible" del reo.
    Hay que tener mucho cuidado (y de esto nadie habló) a los desmayos y desvanecimientos del reo. Ojo nadie esta pidiendo la muerte a latigazos. Pero tener especial atención.
    Si un reo es condenado a 50 y a partir de los 30/35 se desvanece hay que ser muy cuidadosos en este punto.

  5. To be truly public, a flogging needs to be televised. I'd suggest three cameras: one showing the overall procedure. One with closeups of the effects on the prisoner's bare back. And one from the front, showing facial reactions (the apparatus needs to be set up so that the prisoner cannot drop his head but must look directly into the camera). The front camera could also capture other things visible from the front, such as if the man wets his pants.

    Live telecasts are not feasible, lest the criminal get an audience for abuse. And even a prisoner who didn't want to be abusive would probably emit yells that weren't suitable for a family audience! Melville (in White Jacket) mentions how some seamen would pour out "a torrent of involuntary blasphemies" under the lash.

    Possible drawbacks? A hardened criminal might gain "face" by taking a lashing stoically. But judging from accounts of 19th-century floggings, it was a rare man who could take a whipping from a knotted cat-o'-nine-tails without screaming. And even if he does keep silent, the facial-reaction camera would tell the tale: in the Kiss the Blood Off My Hands flogging, Lancaster's character keeps silent, but his face shows his suffering.

    There's also a danger that a brutal flogging might generate sympathy for the prisoner: this was true for those Malaysian videotapes where caning opened up raw wounds and the cane kept coming down on bleeding flesh and the man was led from the caning apparatus with blood running down his legs! But a flogging with the "cat" isn't going to have that effect: at most a few pinpoints of blood would appear at the knot points, and the welts and blood-blisters would probably strike most viewers as well-deserved.

  6. I'm trying to figure out the rough numbers on your equivalencies. Since we're talking the strap rather than the "flesh-devouring cane" here, 50 equivalent per year of felony incarceration seems reasonable. Down at the lower end of your 'continuum', I am trying to figure out what I would have done with two "class C's" (both in wonderful Texas) in my time. I drew 10 days (ended up being seven) on the first, and 3 days (ended up being two) on the more piddly second. Jail of course is nasty, particularly in that state, and based simply on my fear of the place there's no particular doubt I would have opted for 12 of the strap on my first Class C. As for the second Class C, looking "only" at two to three days in jail, well, if I had already taken 12 with the strap on the first -- assuming that 12 is as bad as you say it is (is a simple 12 really THAT bad, Whipping Dude?) -- I probably would have just toughed it out for a weekend in the smelly hellhole.

    A follow-up question would be whether, having taken 12 hard ones on the first offense, I would really have even risked a second Class C of any type, or whether literally I would have been whipped into shape the first time.

    Not sure what my paragraphs above say -- other than your rough equivalencies may be close, so that either choice is a punishment one ends up dreading. (BTW, I did fu*k up twice in my life, but I swear nothing worse than a Class C and I don't really feel I am an evil person!)

    As to all this public flogging nonsense, let's get real here. Sure, an occasional public or televised flogging for serious felonies would make the point and be a deterrent. But if we're talking an available substitute all the way down to jailable Class C's, the public spectacle would soon die out, no TV station in its right mind would cover it, and it would hardly even be worth preparing some public square. Thinking back to my first one, if I could have avoided jail by being sentenced, escorted to a back room, strapped by an officer and a witness and back home a few hours later, that would pretty much have paid my debt off.

    And how would all these tradeoffs work for females? Goodness knows if we expand this choice to most crimes, there are a bunch of chics out there that need to take some medicine too.

    -- K.K.

  7. Looking back at my wilted, aged paperwork here from Texas municipal and JP courts, I notice that in both Class C's, I also could have avoided jail on each one with what at the time were totally unreasonable, high fines not really an option to me. And since then, I think they may have expanded work-service options. Under your theory here, I guess I would have had another option. Still think I would have taken the 12 whacks on the first, more serious offense, and still not sure on the second one which ended up being a couple days locked up.

    -- K.K.

  8. Yes, 12 with the strap is that bad--and I'm into this. I have no doubt that someone who doesn't seek the lash would be deterred by the thought of another session.

  9. Why not use a strap across the bare backs of those aged 13-16 and the whip aged 16 upwards. I guess you'd see a huge drop off in offenders - would've also sorted out the lootters and rioters in London, UK

  10. Yah, Anonymous's suggestion makes sense, except that, in my case anyway, my bare back wasn't the object of that stinging leather strap, and I was never tied down.

    After 16, I deliberately took off the shirt, mostly because I wanted to see what it felt like, but mostly to prove my machoness (not sure if that's a word or not). I've always wanted to talk to my old man about that, because I think he took it as a challenge to teach me a lesson I'd never forget, yah, like that worked.

    I was thinking that a cat or single tail would really be appropriate for those looters/rioters in the UK. With their history of punishments in the Royal Navy and/or prisons, it'd be perfect.

    I wonder, if given the choice, those two male hikers would accept a public whipping of 100 lashes instead of prison time? They are nothing more than political pawns anyway.

  11. Spot on Richie - I bet the 2 hikers would accept a public whipping rather than stay in prison.

  12. Once again, I wonder when you will post the new video you have promised.

  13. I really want to post one--and my back is literally aching for the lash--but I can't bring myself to do it because I am a bit of a perfectionist and I am not at all satisfied with the current state of my body. I am working on it, though.

  14. Wait just a freakin' minute here, armyman. If you're so determined to see a dude getting whipped, then post one of your own vids.

  15. Wow, August 11th, and since then nothing, man. I've never been one to shy away from going off on someone, and if I can't log on after this, well, I had it coming. I realize it's hard to keep a blog fresh, but dude, c'mon. Apparently a lot of guys, save one, have lost interest. Most of them (I'm guessing) are waiting for that vid. I understand where you're coming from about that, but at least you could post something. If nothing else put the onus on some of the people who read this blog. Maybe they've got some the ones I offered up a while ago.

  16. Hey, Richie, tell us more about that challenge to your old man to teach you a lesson you wouldn't forget. You took off the shirt and then what? Did you get that lesson?

  17. WhippingDudes, if it's going to be a while until your next video, maybe you should set up a contest for best belt whip video on youtube. I bet you can find a few guys here who'd donate some cash toward a prize so there's an incentive. Set up some ground rules - obviously it has to be shirtless, minimum ten lashes, extra points for more lashes, etc. Pick out a few posters here as judges and see what the you-tubers can come up with!

  18. Richie, I do apologize to you and everyone else who reads this blog for the inconsistency of the posts. I have encouraged others to post their own fantasies and stories--and a few very good ones have been. I am going to keep the blog up and post as often as I can (which is dictated by whether or not I feel I have something people will want to read).

    Flogging has been a passion of mine all of my life. It is actually very surprising to me how hard it is to come up with new things to share with an audience.

  19. WhippingDudes, it's not that surprising that it's hard to come up with post material, despite your (and our!) passion for the subject. Football fans like to talk about football, but at the end of the day what they really want is to get on with the next game. Same with us, I think - we like talking about our favorite flogging scenarios, but what we really want is to see more of them played out! We want to see the hot dude stripped to the waist, strung up, and whipped hard as well-deserved punishment for his crimes. So we definitely appreciate your exceptional video contributions, even if we just end up wanting more!

  20. Been awhile since I've been around here, I see. I think I know who the Aussie dude is and the guy Richie talked to and he's right. His back's been ripped up and bloodied and it's smooth. I talked to this guy. Back sterilized after w/antiseptic spray. No reason whatsoever to flog some shredded and bulked up prisoner's back and make it hurt like hell. And no shirt allowed after the flogging so the cons can see what's coming to them.
    We don't do other punishments in public so its ok by me to have them done at the cop station with an observer from the court--or me--and video'd for future reference.
    I can easily commit a class C, just play internet poker in my State. Hell, I will report to get flogged by a LEO and give me several dozen with a cat. Prefer that to a strap. Won't get a sound out of me. I will make a deal with any cop, hehe. If I yelp during my lashing gimme another dozen. If I maintain bearing like a good devildog, officer stakes off his shirt and I give him a dozen. Match you lash for lash, biatch.
    Worst pain ever was not a formal authentic cat or single tail but the cord off a steam iron. Rubber, thin but heavy, jeezus, that brought tears to my eyes amazing suffering. That's what prisoners should get. Room with a whipping frame at the PD. Every guy be very afraid to enter there dammit. Public? I go back and forth on that but I now don't think it should be. If they brought it back in the service, I could see in the brig or in front of the company or platoon level. Let's your bruthahs see how much of a man you really are. But in civie life, I don't know. Way to many bleeding hearts out there.
    But I can see criminals being prison strapped like a chaingang strap across the bare butt. But the back's the natural place for it when your grown up.
    Yes, the UK rioters should all have been flogged and have their welfare checks cut off. Or their stones.

  21. Yah, Mike, that sounds like the dude. The last time I was in contact with him, he was living in South Africa. Apparently, and it's just a guess, the Aussie Master that whipped his back and he had some kind of falling out. He told me that being a slave and taking a whipping from him were some of the best days of his life. I dunno about the slave thing. I couldn't handle it, not with my temper anyway.

  22. For the anonymous dude who wants to know about the lesson I learned at 16, I can tell you it was a painful one, but did I learn anything, um, for a while.

    My old man and I bumped heads more than once when I was a teenager. We're both hard headed and stubborn, and that day at 16, it sorta got out of hand. I don't mind doing chores, and I thought I'd done a good job, but he didn't see it that way.

    I made the mistake of telling him that if he didn't like the way I did things, he could do them himself. Wow, before I knew it, his hand was gripping the back of my neck and he marched me off to the barn. It's not like I hadn't been there before.

    This time, I stood my ground, and when he shouted at me, I frickin' shouted right back at him. When he reached for that heavy leather strap, I took off my shirt and sorta dared him to whip me. When he turned and saw me, just for a second I think he wasn't sure what to do.

    I stood there, thumbs latched in the front pockets of my jeans, and waited. When he raised the strap, I turned around. Thwhack, right across the back. I fully expected to feel the pain right away, but it didn't happen. A couple seconds passed, and then, holy crap. Like people always say, it was like holding your hand over a fire.

    I did my best to shrug the pain off, and that really pissed my old man off. Well, that, and the fact I turned, cupped my hands around my crotch and blew him a kiss. After that, the whipping sorta became a blur. I do remember covering myself up as best I could, but that strap hit everything, my bare back, my ass, my legs, etc.

    When it was finally over, I remember he stood there, kinda out of breath and perhaps a bit scared, but no scared enough to tell me that if I ever mouthed off to him again, well, you get the picture.

    After he left, I laid there, for a few minutes, my curiosity about what a piece of leather ripping into my bare back felt like totally answered. Looking in the mirror when I got to my room, I couldn't believe it. You could see the imprints vividly. They lasted for a good week or more.

    We didn't talk for a while afterwards. I did phrase my words carefully for a while. It wasn't the last encounter I had with that strap, but it was the worst.

  23. Richie, since Buddy has no time for this blog and the weather is not so good for going shirtless, are you willing to give us a video of YOU being whipped? I think we all would like to see that and SOON!

  24. I think saying Buddy has no time for the blog is a bit harsh - especially without knowing what might be keeping him away - but the rest of your email stands fair - so Richie, "can you help us out here"? :)

    Ohh and the comments about it not being the last but definately the worst.... is that "worst" as in "best"...


  25. As an aside - sorry it is a bit off topic - is there a way to make a new topic instead of jsut replaying to them - I wanted to suggest a thread, 1 per country, of all the guys on here who might like to do a bit more than just talk about things - if you follow my gist. I was thinking sort of a UK/USA/Germany etc thread, where anyone interested could put stuff down like:

    Email (optional)
    Whipper, whippee, Both, Watch only
    Can travel?
    Can accomm?
    County / Nearest Main Town
    Group / Club meets?
    1-2-1 meets?
    Whip / Implement(s) of choice

    As I say, sorry to post off-topic but I couldn't see how to create a new thread that would be ON-topic.


  26. You are all correct to take me to task for not being as attentive with the blog as I should have been over the past few months. With work and wedding plans there simply weren't enough hours in the day. But the wedding is behind me now, so I can begin to pay more attention to my passion: flogging.

    Great idea, Mark. In answer to your question about readers posting original threads, the answer is both yes and no. You cannot do it on this site as the blog service only allows one host at a time (and I am not comfortable giving out the password), but you can become an author on the backup site at

    If anyone is interested in that, create a user account on that site and email with the username you are using and I will grant you author access so you can begin making your own threads. We could even create the categories that you suggest, Mark.

  27. We still haven't heard from Richie.

  28. Richie, where are you when we need you?

  29. Although I have never chimed in before, I am as much a fan of flogging as anyone on this blog. Nothing “turns me on” more than a shirtless guy, tied up, ready to take the lash on his bare back. WOW!! However, as a “giver” I haven’t been able to find a “taker” in a long time. (It’s not like I can go up to a worthy candidate and ask him if I can whip him on his bare back - good way to get beat up!) If I could find a “taker,” I would post it on this blog ASAP! So my question is: Where are the videos of those who ARE taking the lash? I agree with Whiphand: Richie, where are you when we need you? Or Mike? Or the guy who was going to take a “brutal” whipping of 100 lashes in September? Is there no one who has, or can make, a video they can upload in lieu of Buddy?

  30. Trueman, hopefully be able to create a thread shortly via the backup site which folks can give their name, country, give/take/both etc as I suspect you are not the only one on here who would like to do a bit more active!

    I am sure there must be a willing back not THAT far from your arm.

  31. That would be great.

  32. Personally I would love to be the one to lay a leather knotted cat o nine tails on a criminals raw flesh but I also agree that this a public flogging NOT a scourging. Personally if I was to be overzealous in the flogging to the point of scourging, then once the lashes are finished I would hand the whip to the victim and let him geve the same number of lashes to me. Give and take is my opinion.

  33. I have been trying to post here some time but a glitch causes my posts to disappear. I've been saving one from some time ago:
    Richie, that was a great description of that experience you had with your Pop, you did the right thing about taking your shirt off and daring him.
    I have a pretty broad back than can accomodate a hard leather belt across it delivered with muscle. I just buzzed down my hair to usmc high reg and feeling very aggro and macho and had a guy who accepted my challenge and whipped me with his belt across my bare back. Not quite the challenge of a stinging leather military cat but he was afraid of hurting me after 15 strokes and gave it up much to my disappointment.

    Now for this public flogging business. Getting more and more off that one. I want the lashes and I wish we had it in WA for clss C felonies cos I have committed 'em since I play internet poker. (Stupid ass biotch laws) But I'd turn myself in for the whip.
    I don't want voyeurs watching my lashing. Witnesses in the PD are fine and if they're female I get a hardon about baring my hairy chest and showing what I can take to them and the guys too, if I can bear up like a man. Otherwise, let's leave the judicial floggins between my bare back and the officer laying that whip across it.

  34. I like the challenge of 50 lashes or more. There's a member around here (Chris?) who take bloody lashes and that's the height of manly behavior. I will hand you my own navy cat and you can whip me to blood if you can. I'm due for another tough one, I admit it.

  35. This comment has been removed by the author.

  36. Hey, anonymous Mike - I'm in WA too (Seattle area), happy to finish what the other dude started and do it right. Belt, cat, whatever else. Let me know how to reach you and we can set something up.

  37. And other Mike - same offer to you, if you're anywhere near me. I'm wiling and able to administer a "tough one".

  38. If you guys get together - TAPE IT FOR US - PLEASE!!

  39. I am looking for like minded dudes in the uk to indulge in shirt off floggings, i've not had that pleasure since I was sixteen when my dad birched me for slapping my sister and those fond memories have never gone away and i'm desperately aching to be given forty lashes on my bare back with the cat as I reckon I could endure the pain without screaming out and if there are any like minded geezers out there who would be well up for it then dont hesitate in letting us know'. Twenty lashes of the birch across the bare arse would be a good second best. I am a stroppy essex lad who is as tough as a dumptruck and will take my punishment with dignity so hurry up lads and put an end to the frustration and yearning for me'!. later.

  40. Hey nwlash and anonymous Mike. Matt here in Idaho and I visit Seattle a few times a year. Be fun to bare my back for what it's been craving.

  41. Hi Trueman!
    I'm a taker and my back is ready for your whip or cat. Where do you live? I'm in Canada.

  42. Wolf and Trueman, (and everyone else reading this) it would be easier to make contact with each other (and other readers who are interested) if you would create a Google profile, add an email address to the profile's public information, and log into that profile when posting comments. Then, others could click the name given above the post, see your profile, and click the email address link to send a message. Even better would be to add a location to the message. Location need not be specific down to the city, giving a country and state or province would be useful enough.

  43. Always looking for contact with men OBSESSED by the lash!!!